This morning sees Chris Grayling MP, the Conservative Justice Secretary, tell the national media and British citizens at large that he smacked his children when they were younger and that this not only did them good but helped, occasionally, to send out a message.
Chris Grayling goes on to give his support to parents who also smack their children and believes that it is appropriate, but does not himself subscribe to beatings which go above and beyond his own remit of what’s acceptable (and the article does not tell us what that is, other than a broad mention of smacking).
But Chris Grayling is not alone; he forms part of a growing army of politicians who speak loud and proud about hitting their children and the virtues of this kind of behaviour. Labour politician, David Lammy MP, who we renamed David Smack Me MP after his own admission that he likes to smack his children, was arguably the first politician in the twenty-first century to go public with this vignette (David is the Chair for the All Party Parliamentary Group on Fatherhood, no less). The usual arguments were put forward – his constituents felt they were unable to hit their children when they had been naughty due to new legislation which made it harder for parents to hit their children and David Smack Me MP even went so far as to suggest his constituents felt they could have stopped the London Riots had they been allowed to punish their children this way.
Yet a lot of things are going unsaid. Scientific research makes it very clear that smacking children does not benefit them in any way and in fact goes a long way to creating problems late on into adult life. The Council of Europe wanted to ban smacking and many children’s’ rights groups have been up in arms over this issue. No doubt, they will be speaking out shortly over Chris Grayling’s latest PR faux pas, which has seen his aids in Westminster falling over themselves to try to smooth this blunder over.
But that’s not the end of the story. The contradictions in Chris Grayling’s Prison Reformation policies come to the fore in this sentiment. No doubt Christopher Grayling wouldn’t disagree with the view that it is wrong, and in fact illegal in this country, to hit adults and domestic violence is, and rightly so, looked down upon. But it’s alright for us to smack our children. The one demographic, who are most vulnerable, not just because of their age (most children are smacked as infants and toddlers), but because they are emotionally dependant on the very people who smack them. It is one of the most unhealthy forms of violence. And our Prison Reform Minister sanctions it.
There really isn’t much left to say, except this: we really do need to start electing intelligent, kind people to represent us. Neanderthals with nasty palms just won’t do.
And for those who would like to know the current position on smacking, here it is:
- UK parents have not been explicitly prohibited from smacking their children.
- The 2004 Children’s Act removed the defence of “reasonable chastisement” in England and Wales for any punishment towards a child that leads to bruising, swelling, cuts, grazes or scratches.
- Any adult found guilty of breaking the law may face up to five years in jail.
- Similar laws exists in Scotland and Northern Ireland
- Physical punishment is prohibited in all maintained and full-time independent schools, in children’s homes, in local authority foster homes and Early Years provision.
Mehrnaz Allawi said:
Well said Natasha, I agree with everything you have written. What a terrible example he sets others!
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opinionatedbean said:
Sadly the only thing that kept my father from smacking me (in his case, it was a leather belt) as often as my siblings was my medical condition. I had monthly hospital appointments back then, and having a bruised body as a child would have signalled the need for Children’s Aid.
I think I turned out okay, but I think that has more to do with how I am a person. I did resent my father very much until a few years before his death, and did have a hard time (and still do) trusting others.
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forcedadoption said:
I, like the writer above do not believe in smacking.However ,a lot of other parents evidently do,and who are we to “put the law on them” for doing what they think is right?Too often nowadays an exasperated mother can exceptionally smack her daughter for misbehaving in a supermarket for example (an actual case) and end up losing her to the malignant cesspools of care and adoption ! PLEASE STOP TRYING TO RULE THE LIVES OF OTHERS AND PUNISHING THEM WHEN THEY DISAGREE WITH YOU !
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Natasha said:
Are you saying then, that we should simply remove all laws which feel like an imposition? Is it ok to murder your child if you feel they’re annoying you? A little beating to pass the time? Come on Ian, let’s not pretend this is about parental rights. This is about human rights.
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opinionatedbean said:
I knew one lady, a tiny persian lady of no more than 4’10”, who had three boys. All three boys were very obedient and she was quite strict with them. I saw her in action – never raised her voice, but in a very calm and assertive manner would tell her sons what would happen if they misbehaved. She took them to an outlet shopping centre and they were good until they were in the carpark. Mom was parking so they started getting rowdy, without a word she turned the key in the ignition and went back home. The boys learnt that mom was serious and there were punishments. She never smacked her boys, but she knew how to provide discipline.
There are ways to establish discipline and respect without having to resort to the rod/belt/hand. Many parents do not know how to provide guidance and many resort to either bribery or spankings/smackings.
Kids, especially little one, need guidance and structure in their lives. Too many parents try to be friends with their kids, and are not actually parents.
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Maggie said:
Well said Natasha, for many years of working with children world wide, and of owning my own nurseries, when children were naughty I would say lets go to the table we would get a drink and sit down and discuss the problems,then we would COMPROMISE, I have taught all children the word TO COMPROMISE, it works, but I love naughty children, their naughtiness can bring so many smiles, children have to be naughty to learn of life and is part of growing up, and so to compromise is a good word for all adults as well, if only parents could learn this word when families are spliting up, then we could save many children. It is amazing that Politician can debate in the house, then smack a kid, poor little souls, it is like I always say, the children are the silent witnesses,
Maggie
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Philip Thompson said:
In todays climate Social Services would have taken his children away. The NSPCC and Cafcass would have been involved, what about lawyers ?. To keep their jobs and make money.
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StuG said:
He’s not totally thoughtless. Actually, pretty intelligent. When it comes to freebies and living off the taxpayer, that is. Perfectly qualified as Justice Secretary amongst this gang of freeloaders in government. A flash in the pan mouthpiece who’ll be paid to do the damage required and retreat back into the shadows.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-expenses/5305242/Chris-Grayling-claimed-for-London-flat-despite-nearby-constituency-home-MPs-expenses.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/shortcuts/2012/sep/04/pass-notes-chris-grayling-justice-secretary
Let’s hope his kids weren’t overly influenced by their father.
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rogereldridge said:
This is not useful. I have done thorough search for the research quoted and drawn a blank. Without providing a link to the specific research cited as the scientific evidence that smacking is bad for a child the article can only be treated as supposition at best or ideology dressed up as fact to win a point by cheating.
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Natasha said:
Dear Roger, perhaps you are drawing a blank because your computer is not working, or unable to download the article. Nevertheless, the research is there and is very real. I add the link again here for ease of reference. Perhaps this is a case of none so blind as those who do not wish to see?
PS The research features in a journal, as mentioned in the article, which may not be available online.
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forcedadoption said:
A very large minority or maybe even a majority of parents still smack children believing it is right to do so.I doubt if many consider it right to murder children so your analogy Natasha is flawed.I I have 7 children and 9 grandchildren and do not smack any of them (though I did once spank a girl friend aged 22 at the time but that was a different era nearly 60 years ago ).The trouble with imposing your views on others is that disastrous consequences can follow ie care orders and even forced adoptions.The law says that you can smack but must not leave a mark ,so why should social workers and the like expand the law to lengths it was never intended to reach?
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Natasha said:
Because laws are not set in stone and must change with the times once deemed ineffective. Especially times which can prove scientifically that smacking is wrong. The analogy I made was simply a metaphor, not to be taken literally. The point was this: should we assume that just because the majority think something is right, even if it flies in the face of science and human rights, that the conduct itself should be legalised? Millions of people every day take heroine, Ian, and drug addicts all over the land would like to see it legalised, but government has set laws in place to protect people from being abused by Class A drugs and those who profit from them. A philosophical debate in itself, of course, but it does explain why some laws are written not because the people choose them, but because people choose the government they elect to make some decisions on their behalf.
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forcedadoption said:
There Natasha we part company alas ! I detest the system where we elect persons to” make decisions on our behalf ” no matter if they contradict the manifesto on which they were elected and also fly in the face of popular opinion.I favour the Swiss system that allows direct democracy at all levels .Laws can either be blocked by an optional referendum or new ones introduced both at local and national level by popular initiative. In both cases a sufficient number of voter’s signatures must be obtained to force such referendums.The Swiss have done quite well with this system and are now the only truly democratic country in the world;We just change our dictators every 5 years which is better than nothing ,but governments are still free to completely disregard popular opinion once elected;
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Natasha said:
And I agree with you. But even the Swiss version of democracy relies on others to make decisions for the greater population. This however, is really a side issue. The fact still remains; if it is illegal and morally wrong to hit an adult (and as I’m sure you’re aware, it can amount to only a tap if the gesture is unwarranted or uninvited), then the same must hold true for children. Parents are not a law unto themselves, nor are they a special group exempt from the laws of the land.
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Philip Thompson said:
FOLKS. I had once posted somewhere that I was brought up in a Victorian style family. ” children should be seen and not heard” especially at mealtimes. The piano legs were covered because of my Dutch Grandmother. Back to the point. Up to 1952 I was chastised both at home and school. WHAT I do not REMEMBER is WHY I was beaten. I have gotten over all these vile deeds NOW. BUT I wish I could meet a few of them NOW. BUT then, perhaps because of this “training” through my life I excused others for their bad behaviour. SO WHAT. Here I am. Tried and tested and known to be true(Winston Churchill).
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forcedadoption said:
But that is the whole point Natasha ! It is NOT illegal to smack a child if no bruise is left as a result.As I pointed out in my penultimate comment,social workers expand the law to suit their own agendas (child snatching).If parents smack their children in public;whether there is a bruise or not, they risk losing them to foster care and sometimes forced adoption so the punishment (separation of children from their families) is completely out of proportion to the alleged offence. Consequently we have the habitual “Punishment without crime”
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Natasha said:
I did not say it was illegal. I said it should be illegal. This is not about social workers, this is about good law, which doesn’t act as a double standard and ensures the protection of the vulnerable. Just because something does not leave a physical mark, it does not mean it won’t leave an emotional one. Please do read the bountiful research (a simple google search will suffice) to see that science is very much anti-smacking, on this one.
We used to believe it was ok to exorcise demons from people’s bodies by torturing them and we even used EST to help ‘cure’ the mentally ill. This did not make it right. Times have changed.
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rogereldridge said:
Despite your unwarranted sarcastic comment you still do not provide a link to any research just a vague mention of some journal but no title, no university, no authors is given, just an opinion piece actually so please do not criticise me for pointing out your failings.
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Natasha said:
Oh Roger. The article cites the research, and a simple Google search will aid you to find other research too. Here is another link to an article. Please do have a look on the net yourself. And another piece of actual research, here (lots of reports cited).
If you don’t wish to receive curt replies, as I’ve mentioned to you several times before, do try to be civil when you post.
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rogereldridge said:
At last, only after repeated ly asking for it you provide a link to an article which itself refers to “research” which everyone will have to read and analyse before they can agree with your hypothesis. It is clear that your article was not based on any research as the first links you gave me were not research but more opinion pieces like yours.
It doesn’t help anyone, especially children if you state an opinion as if it were fact and if you give so-called “curt replies” to anyone who challenges the authenticity of your claims.
Surely we should be joined on a journey to discover the Truth so that children and Families will best prosper not taken down your branch of ideology despite knowledge that it is not in a child’s best interests.
I will look into the research mentioned in the article and report back. A brief analysis suggests that the so-called “evidence” you claim (without any evidence-based facts to support it) is not at all conclusive that smacking has significant detrimental effects on a child’s outcomes.
The research I am interested in is that comparing actual smacking – not physical punishment or spanking – with “”carrot” offering approaches.
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Natasha said:
Roger, I have explained to you already that the article mentions a piece of research. Please do re-read it. I have also explained to you, countless times now, that there is further research on the net (all you needed to do was Google it, but it seems you needed my help for that, so I have obliged).
I don’t believe individuals like yourself wish to join in the pursuit of truth.
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forcedadoption said:
Too many people want to forcibly impose their views on those who disagree with them.I oppose smacking children but I do not believe we should jail those who do it,or worse still confiscate their children (which is where social workers definitely DO come in !).
I vigorously oppose the BNP but do not believe we should ban it. I believe in neither Christianity nor the Moslem faith but do not wish to ban either despite the evils that occur when the two conflict.I personally find the mere thought of the act of “buggery” disgusting but I do not wish to ban it or jail those who enjoy it ! When a very substantial number of people believe it is right to act in a certain way we should never seek to jail them for doing so !
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Natasha said:
Bar smacking, the examples you give are all unrelated to the direct use of violence. However, some of these practices condone violence indirectly.
Violence is the issue. Not unfettered free will.
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miriamsaidMiriam Said said:
The only time a child should ever be smacked is when it’s to save their life…e.g. Choking…a hard slap on the back to get the object out, or when they are born to revive them or in an emergency rescuitation event.
Violence is never a good thing or a problem solver and assaulting my own children should be illegal…If I assaulted another persons child, then they would have me arrested for smacking their kid as this is assault on a minor and is illegal, so why not illegal if I assault my own child.
The only difference seems to be a percieved ownership/objectification of your own child, which allows you to abuse it at will if you leave no mark on it, which is totally and utterly wrong.
Assault is assault. Abuse is abuse and both are illegal. My child should have the same rights as every other person.
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Ian Josephs said:
Parents should have the right to bring up their kids their own way without outside interference .I am against smacking,against obesity,against pushing kids to work even harder at school,and against educating them by putting condoms on bananas ! Nevertheless I do not think it right to jail or fine those who disagree with me.The regulation of the politically correct is almost a religion in the UK with anti racism,(not insulting anyone who happens to be gay or black in case they prosecute you),health and safety carried to ridiculous lengths,council officials spying on peoples rubbish disposal (waiting for a false move) .The Nanny State has really taken control;
I approve of gay marriage but detest the self righteous who denounce as bigots anyone who disagrees ! In the name of multiculturism and tolerance the UK has turned into the most intolerant country in Western Europe and child snatching is just another sympton of “the State knows best” cult that has the UK in its grip;
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Natasha said:
This is just about violence. Not parental rights – a term I personally abhor, used by people who, to my mind, don’t seem to understand the essence of parenting, nor is this about freedom of choice.
As for the Nanny state and political correctness, both of which I have little time for, they have no place, in my view, in this debate. The debate on smacking and being anti smacking is not about being diplomatic. It is about going forward with scientific evidence which shows that smacking is detrimental to children. It is about human respect and dignity. It is about showing our children that being an adult means being able to resolve conflict and disagreement without resorting to our hands.
Being self righteous is not the exclusive premise of the liberal. Extremists are self righteous, anti-gay campaigners are all too often self righteous and those who choose to jump onto a controversial but widely prescribed band wagon can be self righteous, too.
But if we are to move with the times, we cannot ignore the truth about smacking. We cannot pretend it is not a long term plague not just on our children but on generations to come, if we do not iron out ill-conceived double standards. Perhaps Western democracy is to blame. Perhaps, by giving people too little to believe in and even less to hold, exerting control over our children is the only outlet we have left to enable us to feel empowered. If that is so, we cannot call ourselves a civilisation in the truest sense of the word.
As for multi culturalism, that too is to be welcomed, but not at the expense of human dignity. I draw the line at stoning women to death for adultery (and men going completely unpunished for the same crime) – do you? I draw the line at marriages which cannot be dissolved unless the husband agrees – do you? I draw the line at hanging people because they choose to exercise their right to freedom of expression, to challenge despotic regimes – do you? And I draw the line, very firmly, at smacking, too.
This is about violence. And that’s where I draw the line I’m afraid.
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Ian Josephs said:
Taking a kid away from its mother because she was seen smacking it is a disgusting thing to do.The right of the child to be with a loving mother (even one who smacks !) is brutally disregarded by faceless and heartless servants of the State ;Probably more parents smack their children than don’t.When minorities like us try to dictate to majorities like “them” that is where the paths of political correctness lead us !
Self righteous prigs abound these days deciding that they know best how others should behave;That is fine until they enforce their own views on others who may be at fault but do not deserve to be punished for it or worse still have their families broken up !
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Natasha said:
I’m not quite sure what case you’re referring to. Your comments seems less about smacking itself and more about social workers and variable policy standards. We haven’t discussed the types of penalties we might have if smacking were banned outright; we’ve been focusing on the cultural habit and the law.
You have chosen not to answer the questions I’ve asked you and you’ve also engaged in assumptions. Even if all parents smacked their children, it wouldn’t make it right.
Carrying your philosophy to its natural conclusion – that the government, or any elected body, should not make any decisions at all for the good of the nation – takes us to a very dangerous place. A world where we turn our back on battery, grievious bodily harm, domestic violence, genocide and terrorism. A world where we throw our hands up in the air and say “who are we to judge?” The answer, to my mind, is simple.
We are not here to judge. We are here to protect.
But if we deem it necessary and right to have laws which protect adults from assaulting each other, we must have the same for children.
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Ian Josephs said:
The government HAS in fact made a decision that smacking is in fact permitted provided no mark or bruise is left as a result.I do not approve of smacking but agree with the goverment’s decision not to criminalise it in all its forms and it is you not I Natasha who refuse to accept the verdict of those you describe as elected to represent us ! Democracy is the rule of the majority so if all parents smacked their children it might not be right but it would certainly be lawful !
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Natasha said:
Yes, I’m aware of the law (I’ve also included it at the bottom of the post). I don’t think there’s any more mileage in sparring with you on this, so I shall cede to anyone else who fancies posting on the issues.
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Philip Thompson said:
There would not be any discussion if all the people involved have seen episodes of Supernanny as shown on TV. Calm and inventive ways to educate children how to behave to the common good. I normally prefer historical and wildlife programmes but was impressed by the lady’s style..
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donate to children said:
Interesting read. I would however like someone to clarify the term ‘smacking’. Does that mean being hit with a belt or wooden spoon or lightly smacking a child’s bottom as these actions are very different.
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Natasha said:
Thank you for your post. It refers to both.
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