It’s caused a great deal of controversy, but Penelope Leach’s view that overnight stays for separated fathers with children under five may not always be right for the child is one we agree with, and we say so on the JVS show.
Contact is a highly emotive debate amongst many separating couples, and some forget that what is right for the child is not always what a parent wants in terms of overnight stays. Whilst there are plenty of couples who do take the view that small children should experience overnight contact when they’re ready, and we know fathers (and mothers) who have waited, and have seen no damage to their relationship with their child (all in fact, would say waiting bolstered it), there are those who feel they are entitled to assert what they perceive to be ‘ their right to contact’.
Researching Reform has always been about the voice of the child. We believe strongly that listening to children not only benefits them in the long run but helps us understand them better and gives us the chance to nurture happy, healthy individuals. This is not a gender issue, nor is it about parents’ battles. Too often we see angry or disgruntled parents use overnight contact as a way to hurt the other parent. Many see a lack of overnight stays as a loss of power over their child. This issue is about none of those things.
We discuss the topic with a member of Families Need Fathers on the JVS show, and as is often the case, the representative confused contact in general, with the narrow issue of overnight stays. An emotive subject, which people find hard to focus on – especially those who have an ax to grind, those who misunderstand children and those whose hurt clouds their common sense.
As we argue on the show, this is all about common sense. Where a child is comfortable with overnight stays, we see no problem. But where a child demonstrates an obvious discomfort, we agree with Penelope – overnight contact will do more harm than good, and can damage the enforcing parent’s relationship with that child, and not just the child in question.
Before you judge our views, listen to the show. You may be surprised. Then again, you may not.
Researching Reform 
Well put Natasha, I agree with you 100 percent. Keep up the good work.
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That’s kind, thank you.
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And who Natasha is to decide what is obvious discomfort on contact?? Usually it is the social worker and/or the contact supervisor.Sometimes the distress a child shows when a parent has to leave is “mistaken” or even “deliberately interpreted” to mean that the child never wished to see the parent at all !Maybe someone should ask the child in court the truth of the matter? But ,as all the “experts” say ” that would never do ……………”
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I think it depends on the context, FA. If we’re talking about parents who are sorting contact out between them, then they should be able to decide. I do agree that we need a much more sophisticated workforce working on these issues, and that the quality of assessment needs to improve drastically.
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I’m not sure that I can agree with this position entirely. Children as young as two years can certainly have an overnight or weekend stay at, say, a grandparents home; so why not with a parent who is separated and living elsewhere?
Also, what of mothers who go out to work – which may include working away from home? What then? Surely we are not suggesting here that they should nip their professional aspirations in the bud, at least until their child is five years old?
Further, there are unfortunate circumstances in life where a mother may pass away when children are younger than five. Surely there can be no objection to father continuing to bring up the children single handed, perhaps with wider familial support?
Fact is, a child’s family does not always consist of one parent – and there is nothing whatsoever wrong with children enjoying a continuing relationship with both parents, being loved and cherished in two homes.
Whilst routines are important to children, they are a lot more robust than Penelope Leach gives them credit for.
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Hi Kenneth, thanks for your comment. I think this is at its heart about optimal scenarios for kids, and that will vary from child to child. Certainly, a child who is comfortable with overnight stays is not going to be harmed by them, but there are those children who will be. Much is down to the parents, the child’s individual characteristics and the routine in place prior to separation or divorce. I don’t think this is really an issue about contact. To my mind at least, it’s about preserving a child’s stability, which as you know is very important always, but especially during family breakdown.
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Natasha , I must say I also do not agree with you on this one as you forget mums leave little ones so they can go out drinking with no concern to Cafcass or Social workers , is the logical thing not here that mum also needs a break and time for herself in a broken family ? I think you need to re think this in a little more detail 🙂
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We need to separate contact per se with this idea of overnight contact. I have explained that, quite a few times now, and the fact that much depends on how comfortable a child feels with the person/parent they’re left with. It doesn’t always automatically follow that every parent knows how to make a child feel comfortable or safe, or even know how to develop a bond. Every parentis different….. xxxx
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Hi Natasha , thank you for your response , and don’t get me wrong I get what you are trying to say but you know this will be turned around and used on mums and dads that was a big part of their little ones lives before separation , where they sleep should not be a reason to not develop a relationship with the other parent , the problem is most mums dump the little ones with any person that will look after them in the UK and you know this is the case as this is their culture thus I still stand by the point before you leave them with a family member , nanny or neighbour , mum or dad should be the first logical choice xoxo 🙂 not having a go , you know I love your work but this issue is one that needs a huge amount more debating , and yes each case is different thus my disappointment in the generalisation of the topic into right and wrong…
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Ha!Yes, you’re right, the culture here is pretty awful when it comes to children, and I do sometimes wonder why people have kids, but that doesn’t mean we can ignore the reality of whom the child has bonded with xxx Of course, if it’s Dad (as opposed to mum, or mum and dad), then yes, of course, Dad should be full time carer if he can and vice versa.
I know you’re not having a go, and I’m quite hardy 🙂 but you’re right, we need to debate this fully and carefully, which is what tends not to happen in the media. We seize on soundbites (the woman is trying to sell her book, of course she was going to use a controversial, taken out of context, sentiment), and ignore the bigger picture. Yet, we do have to drown out the white noise too, sometimes. Just because the courts are terribly bad at this sort of thing, it shouldn’t mean we can’t tell it like it is. That’s what debate is there for, and I think it’s great that we can use it.
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Reblogged this on The Story of my Twin Boys , Oliver and Oscar Ferreira.
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This research will end up setting a precedence and regardless of individuals circumstances will make it harder for fathers to bond with their children at the very age when they should be bonding. Working men will only have a window when its possible to have a child over, often at a weekend, sometimes to give a break to the mother. Mothers who wish to prevent a father from seeing his child will use this as a reason when its them who doesn’t wish it.
A child will accept arrangements and I dont think will be harmed by overnight stays with Dad. So long as the child is loved and secure in his/her relationship with Dad and there is no infighting between the parents the child can only benefit.
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Does noone care what the child thinks or wants? No I don’t suppose they do ……….
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I think that’s the problem….
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Hi Natasha,
You may be interested in this article published in Live Science
http://www.livescience.com/57737-children-divorce-overnight-parents.html#sthash.ln3nEGpn.gbpl
Why Young Kids Should Spend Equal Time with Divorced Parents
By Sara G Millar
Live Science
February, 2017
When separate or divorce, they often wonder what’s best for their young children: should they spend more time with their mother in order to maintain a strong relationship? Or, should time be split equally?
A new study may offer the answer. Researchers found that children of divorce benefited from spending time, including sleeping over, at both parent’s
And the adult children who went on to have the best relationships with their parents were the ones who spent equal time at both their mother’s home and their father’s home when they were very young, according to the study, published today (Feb. 2) in the journal Psychology, Public Policy and Law.
New research suggested that when a child spends too much time with his or her father early in life, it can damage the mother-child bond, which had been viewed as the more important relationship, the researchers wrote in the study.
However, the researchers found that “not only did overnight parenting time with fathers during infancy and toddlerhood cause no harm to the mother-child relationship, it actually appeared to benefit children’s relationships with both their mothers and their fathers,” lead study author William Fabricius, an associate professor of psychology at Arizona State University, said in a statement.
The researchers included more than 100 college students in the study whose parents had separated or divorced before the student was 3 years old. These students were asked to assess their current relationships with each of their parents.
In addition, the researchers surveyed each student’s parents, asking them to report the amount of time the student spent as a young child with either the mother or father. The parents also reported the amount of time the child spent with the father from ages 5 to 10 and from ages 10 to 15, according to the study. Finally, the parents noted whether they were separated or divorced for one, two or three of their child’s first three years, the researchers wrote.
The scientists found that the more overnight parenting time that the students had as infants and toddlers, up to and including equal time spent with the mother and father, the better their current relationships with their parents were.
The time spent with both parents at age 2 was particularly important, the researchers wrote. If a 2-year- old missed out on spending the night at both parents’ houses, the parents couldn’t compensate later with more overnight time, according to the study. The researchers noted that these particular overnight visits had a positive effect on the parent-child relationship regardless of any conflicts or disagreements between the mother and father about the overnights.
In other words, the findings were the same whether the parents agreed on equal time or not.
The researchers offered several reasons for why equal time with both parents is beneficial.
For the fathers, “having to care for their infants and toddlers for the whole cycle of evening, bedtime, night-time and morning helps dads learn to parent their children from the beginning,” Fabricius said. “It helps dads and babies learn about each other, and provides a foundation for their future relationship,” he said.
For the mothers, letting the child spend the night with his or her father could offer a break from the stress of being a single mother, the researchers wrote.
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FORGET about overnight contacts and their desirability.Far,far more important are the wicked ,wicked “no contact at all” orders ! Jail for sending a birthday card or waving at children in the street ;yes jail for parents who have no criminal record but who have upset the pompous judges of the family courts !
Examples I can mention because they have already been named in the press are Vicky Hague(no previous criminal record) who was sentenced to 3 years jail (later reduced by 5 months on appeal) for talking to her own daughter ! Also Katherine Danby (no criminal record) who was imprisoned (and some weeks later released )because she hugged her grandaughter ! How shocking !
The Court of protection is even worse threatening jail if a relative did not bring back a harmless old Portuguese man from his happy Portuguese care home to be given to social services so they could sell his house to pay a private UK care home charging extortionate fees !
If we could only ban gagging orders and no contact orders made on law abiding citizens ;that would be progress.
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